Welcome to the MHB Podcast. This is Michael Baun. And welcome to my twentieth episode. Tonight I want to talk about the relationship between science and religion – and the hypothetical conflict between them. I say hypothetical because I’m not entirely convinced that there is a conflict between science and religion. And what’s more, I think that when you understand the proper relationship between science and religion you unlock information that is unavailable to you if you stick with just one or the other. I want you to walk away from tonight’s episode with an awareness of how to spot popular misconceptions and with freedom from the shackles of those misconceptions. But in order to get there I need to paint a picture of where I think this conflict originates.
We have to go back to ancient Babylon. The Babylonian empire was a key kingdom in Mesopotamia from the 18th century to the 6th century B.C. The city of Babylon was built on the Euphrates river. During the height of its power, this city was an absolute wonder to behold. Many of you have heard of the Hanging Gardens of Babylon – they were one of the seven ancient wonders of the world and are a household name even today. Ancient Babylon is where I want to begin our investigation of the conflict between science and religion.
With these ancient empires, it was common practice to conquer territory and take the indigenous people captive. The conqueror would homogenize captives from different territories in order to confuse their respective cultures. Many of these people from all different walks of life would end up in the great city of Babylon. When they got there, they were awestruck by the marvels of engineering that built the city’s infrastructure. For these people, luxuries previously thought impossible were commonplace in Babylon. The kinds of horrible diseases and abject poverty these people grew up in were no match for Babylon’s wealth, power, and technological advancement.
So what do you do when you walk into a city that is beyond anything you’ve ever dreamed possible? Naturally, you bow down and worship the state sponsored god. In this case it was Marduk. After all, the greatness of Babylon was proof that Marduk was not only real but was the most powerful god, right? If Marduk is behind all of these wonderful advancements and magnificent structures, certainly he should be able to tell me how to live and what my destiny is. The greatness of Babylon fueled the idolatry of Marduk.
This same process is happening with science today. Science, as we know it, emerged in the 17th century with Newton, Descartes, and Bacon. Across time, science has given us advancements in medicine, industry, travel, and communication on a level that can only be described as miraculous. Science is behind our luxury. Science is behind our security. Science is behind the spread of information the likes of which the world has never seen before. Almost everything we enjoy in our modern lives would not be possible without science. Because of science, one individual can possess more knowledge than entire populations of the past. The result? Human beings, with their proclivity to worship something – anything – have erected a religion around the discipline of science. In ancient Babylon, the god was named Marduk. In the modern west, the god is named Advancement.
Advancement is why I can distribute this podcast around the world from my home. Advancement is why I can travel 400 miles on a $20 tank of gas. Advancement is why I don’t have to worry about my food perishing in my kitchen. Advancement is what protects me from hostile foreign powers. Advancement is why I can walk down the street without worrying about contracting Tuberculosis or Small Pox. Advancement is why I can know what’s going on around the world in real time with a few keystrokes.
Advancement has given me all of this. The scientists have given me advancement. Isn’t it logical then to assume that scientists will be the ones who can finally answer the question of why I exist? Will it not be scientists who finally discover the breakthrough that tells us what happens when we die? Advancement is so deeply ingrained in our culture that we no longer refer to the gods of our time as scientists – we simply call them “they.” How many times have you caught yourself saying something like: well, I’m not worried about an epidemic, because “they” will make sure it doesn’t happen. Or how about this: These iPhones can recognize my voice, I sure hope “they” aren’t listening to my conversations. Or maybe you’ve said: isn’t it amazing that “they” can make self-driving cars? How long before “they” start manufacturing A.I.?
Advancement is our nation’s version of the Babylonian Marduk. We worship advancement and structure our worldview around it. We call this religion Secularism. Because Secularism has proven insufficient in answering questions of origin, meaning, morality, and destiny, the real worldviews we have been left to choose from are nihilism, hedonism, and postmodernism. This is why we can live in the most free, most prosperous, and most secure nation on the planet – yet have a population that is fraught with depression, anxiety, and victim hood. This is why we are losing the ability to have conversations without being censored and accused of so-called “hate speech.”
Earlier in the episode I said that I don’t believe there is a conflict between science and religion. Science does not conflict with religion. Other religions conflict with religion. We have invented a religion around the discipline of science and are continually invoking an idolatrous god who does not exist. Since we are such firm adherents of this religion, we have rapidly forgotten the other set of truths that have been facilitating us as we’ve flourished into who we are today. These are the truths set down in the Bible. This is the Judeo-Christian worldview, without which you cannot produce a society stable enough to discover science.
So why is it that our culture would have us believe we can either be secular scientists of the enlightenment or blind faith religious dogmatists? The answer is a misunderstanding of what it means for something to be true. From what I can tell, there are two different orders of truth. The first order of truth appeals to observable facts. The higher order of truth appeals to universal values. The truths that appeal to observable facts are subordinate to the truths that appeal to universal values. So let’s think about this.
Imagine you are sitting on the couch in your living room. It is an observable fact that nothing in your living room is on fire. It is the first order of truth that nothing in your living room is on fire. However, the rest of your house is on fire. From your perspective, you cannot sense it – therefore you cannot observe it. It is the higher order truth that the rest of your house is on fire. The rest of your house being on fire is a higher order truth because it is most relevant to your universal values. In this case, the universal value is the desire to avoid burning to death. In this instance, there is no test you can perform and no way that you can observe the higher order truth.
A picture of the person who adheres to the religion of Secularism would say that since we cannot test or observe whether the rest of the house is on fire – we must rely on the facts that we can test and observe. This person remains on the couch and burns to death. A picture of the person who adheres to the higher order truth of the Bible accepts on faith that the rest of the house is on fire and jumps out of the window to safety. Ironically, it is the person who responds with faith to the higher order truth who ends up with the opportunity to test and observe that higher order truth – because they live long enough to do so.
So here’s how we should approach science and the Bible. We should not inhibit the progress of science on the grounds of being afraid that it will punch holes in our religion. We should also stop trying to equivocate our higher order truths with first order truths. Higher order truths correspond to universal values – things like meaning, purpose, avoidance of needless suffering, and alleviation of pain and misery. First order truths correspond to observable facts – things we can test in the lab. However, when a first order truth is inconsistent with a higher order truth, we must take it on faith that the higher order truth will act as a framework to correct our understanding of the first order truth. For example, it wasn’t until we recognized the higher order truth of the house being on fire that we saw our misunderstanding of the first order truth – the living room not being on fire. Because in an ultimate sense, the living room was on fire – even though our limited observation told us it was not.
So what’s the take away? If you’re a Christian listening to this, don’t be afraid of studying the disciplines and being a student of advancement. If you’re a scientist listening to this, keep working toward your discoveries and the wonderful advancements that they bring. But I implore you, do not look to science for answers to the questions associated with your values. Do not look to science for answers to origin, meaning, morality, and destiny. You exist for a higher order truth. Your ultimate reality is beyond what you can sense with the scientific method. Go back to the Bible. This time, read it with the intention of seeking answers to those values – not with the intention of empirical testing.
Try to structure your worldview around the eternal truths in the Bible. Then bolster that worldview with a scientific understanding of the nature of reality. The Bible and reality are built to work together. When you use them this way, you unlock new information that you would never have access to with just the Bible or just science. If you run into conflict, take it on faith that traveling far enough with biblical truth will reveal new understanding of the nature of reality. Give God the chance to show you the world in such a way that you can make giant leaps in scientific discovery. And if that approach sounds strange to you, remember this: Isaac Newton, Rene Descartes, and Francis Bacon were all Christians.
If you find this content valuable, feel free to share it and to use it in your own studies. If you’d like to support this podcast, you can do so at www.patreon.com/michaelhbaun. There is a link in the description. Your generosity goes a long way to promoting the growth of this enterprise and the cause of free speech. Thank you all for joining me this evening, and I will see you in the next episode.
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